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tv   Meet the Press  MSNBC  May 22, 2016 11:00am-12:01pm PDT

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with centurylink as your trusted technology partner, you're free to focus on growing your business. centurylink. your link to what's next. this sunday, now, it's the democrats who are this sunday, now it's the democrats who are fighting in public. >> before we will have the opportunity to defeat donald trump, we're going to have to defeat secretary clinton. >> this morning, my sit-down with hillary clinton. on bernie sanders. >> let me say i don't think he has had a single negative ad against him. >> donald trump. >> no evidence he has ideas about making america great. >> if you listen closely, it appears she has a new slogan. >> we're stronger together. we're stronger together. >> plus, the new findings from our new poll just out this morning. how much is bernie sanders damaging hillary clinton's chances?
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>> also, donald trump claims he's bringing in countless new voters into the republican party. >> they're coming by the millions. >> are they really new voters? we have the answer. >> and also, a brash billionaire turned reality tv star with an eye on politics. sound familiar? my interview with dallas mavericks owner mark cuban. >> what would it take to convince you to run in a 2020 or 2024? >> and joining me for insight and analysis are alex castellanos, helene cooper of the "new york times," joy-ann reid, host on msnbc, and robert draper of the "new york times" magazine. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." good sunday morning. we have a lot to get to today. new poll, the infighting, now on the democratic side. my interviews with hillary clinton and mark cuban. let's start with the numbers.
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our new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, and what appears to be a dramatic tightening of the general election contest. hillary clinton led donald trump by just three points in the new poll, 46/43, but look where we were a month ago. clinton had a double digit lead over trump. bernie sanders, by the way, does a lot better when matched up against trump. he clobbers him 54/39. a 15-point spread. i asked hillary clinton why in light of these numbers she thinks she's a stronger candidate than sanders against trump. we'll get to that in the interview in a moment. but these results also show that donald trump is gaining ground as republicans unite behind their candidate while democrats remain deeply divided. >> hillary clinton is delivering a blunt message to bernie sanders supporters. >> i will be the nominee for my party, chris. that is already done in effect. there's no way that i won't be. >> barring defection by
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superdelegates, clinton needs just 85 more delegates to become the presumptive democratic nominee. but sanders is conceding nothing. >> before we will have the opportunity to defeat donald trump, we're going to ha to defeat secretary clinton. >> his campaign adding in a statement, it is clear that millions of americans have growing doubts about the clinton campaign. some democrats worry that sanders' criticism will stick. >> she has given speeches on wall street for $225,000 a speech. >> and at the chaos on display in nevada state convention, where sanders supporters lashed out will break out in philadelphia at the national convention. nevada's party chair released threatening messages she says she received. >> i just wanted to let you know that people like you should be hung in public execution.
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>> the sanders slow walk may be doing damage. in a general election matchup, just 66% of sanders voters say they plan to support clinton. 17% support trump. clinton is more than hinting that it's time for him to get out. >> i will do everything i can to unify the party. i did that when i pulled out in '08. some of you remember. >> in some ways, it's deja vu all over again. in may of 2008, clinton had to apologize after she defended staying in the nomination process this way. >> we all remember bobby kennedy was assassinated in june in california. >> she may have a tough time winning over all of sanders' supporters. eight years ago, her voters liked president obama. right now, sanders voters view her negatively. for now, trump is playing up the democratic divide. >> i think bernie should run as
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an independent, okay. let him run. >> we know what trump has in mind there. anyway, with all that in mind, i sat down yesterday with hillary clinton right here in our studio and gan by asking her about the threat that bernie sanders poses to her candidacy. >> is bernie sanders now helping donald trump? >> oh, i don't think so. i think that senator sanders has every right to finish off his campaign however he chooses. i do think there will then be the obvious need for us to unify the party. i faced the same challenge in 2008. i will certainly do my part reaching out to senator sanders, reaching out to his supporters and i expect him to do his. and he said about a week ago he was going to spend seven days a week trying to defeat donald trump. and i believe that's the case. >> you know, earlier this week,
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you just said emphatically, look, i'm going to be the nominee. >> right. >> about ten days earlier, you weren't ready to say that. the only thing that has changed is you narrowly won kentucky. why did you think it was important to verbalize that? >> i think having gone through 2008, as i did, it was much closer between then-senator obama and myself in 2008. i actually won 9 of the last 12 contests in 2008, including kentucky, west virginia, indiana, other states. and i wanted to make it clear that i know what this feels like, having lived through it. i have 3 million more votes in the case of senator obama and myself, it was neck and neck in the popular vote. i have far more pledged delegates. it was much closer between me and senator obama. and i am going to be the nominee, and i want to spend a lot of my time, as you have seen me do, really taking on trump, because i find what he says, the kind of candidacy he's presenting to pose a danger to
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our country. >> you know, it's interesting, though. he's making a case, bernie sanders, senator sanders, to super delegates, and there's another memo that they put out this weekend just showing how much stronger he is against donald trump than you are. our own poll, he's got a 15-point lead over trump. you have a 3-point lead over trump. you made an electability case seven days before the final day of the primary season to super delegates back in 2008. why shouldn't super delegates, you wanted them to listen to your argument eight years ago. why shouldn't super delegates listen to the bernie sanders argument and say maybe he is more electable? >> well, first of all, people have voted for me overwhelmingly in the democratic primary process.
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and that is absolutely clear, and very different from where we were in 2008. i could make the case, which i did, that i was actually slightly ahead in the popular vote when we ended that primary, but i was behind in the pledged delegates. it's also fair to say that i have been vetted and tested, and i think that that puts me in a very strong position. >> you don't think bernie sanders has been vetted. you don't think this long campaign has vetted him? >> i don't think he's ever had a single negative ad against him. that's fine, but we know what we're going into and understand what it's going to take to win in the fall. finally, i would say that polls this far out mean nothing. they certainly mean nothing to me, and i think if people go back and look, they really mean nothing in terms of analyzing what's going to happen in the fall. >> you think the lead for sanders is an illusion? >> i'll let others speak to
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that. i just think i'm in a much stronger position, have been, and the voters who have turned out and given me 3 million more votes believe that as well. >> it does seem he has specific demands he would like to see met at the convention. if he's not going to be the nominee, some include perhaps getting rid of super delegates. creating a rule that says all primary contests should be open to independents, things like that. are you okay with those, if that's what it takes to get him onboard, to say, okay, we'll do this in the platform, we'll change the rules. we'll change the platform. what do you say? >> certainly, we're going to talk with him when he's ready to talk and listen to him. we will take into account what he is asking for. i think that's part of the
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process. >> getting rid of super delegates, would you be in favor of that? >> i'm not going to negotiate with him today on your show. i'm going to say when it's time i'm reaching out to do my part to try to unify the party. i expect him to do the same. i did that when i lost a much closer race to senator obama. because i knew that whatever our differences were, just as whatever our differences are between me and senator sanders, they pale in comparison to donald trump and the republicans. and i think most of senator sanders' supporters understand that as well. >> would you -- he's accepted an invitation to debate in california before the california primary. have you thought about accepting that invitation? >> we'll consider it, but i'm really -- >> you're not ruling it out yet? >> i haven't thought about it. we'll consider it. i think what's important is we're not going to let, at least my campaign, is not going to let donald trump try to normalize himself in this period between -- >> you think a competitive democratic primary is doing nothing but helping donald trump right now? >> i didn't say that. i said if we don't respond to donald trump, which i'm doing, as you have seen, i have said he was unqualified to be president. i believe that deeply. i'm going to keep focused on donald trump because i will be the nominee. i will be running against donald trump in the fall, and i do not want americans and, you know, good thinking republicans as well as democrats and independents, to start to believe that this is a normal candidacy. it isn't. what he is advocating, look what he's done this past week. you know, attacking our closest ally, england. heaping praise on a dangerous
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dictator in north korea. reiterating his call to pull out of nato, talking about letting other countries have nuclear weapons. advocating a return to torture and even murdering the families of suspected terrorists. that is beyond the pale. and it poses immediate dangers. i go around the country, chuck, all the time. and in my events in the last few weeks, i have had republicans coming to tell me they are supporting me. they have different reasons. for a lot of women, it's the divisive, demeaning comments that donald trump has made about women. for others, a businessman just told me yesterday in texas, he said i'm a republican, i always voted republican. i'm here giving you money, supporting you, because i do business all over the world, and i'm watching what this trump effect is doing to our standing in the world. >> you know, it's interesting. there's a lot of democrats that are quietly nervous that your candidacy isn't responding to what the populous wants right now. they want major change. the populous wants major shakeups and your campaign has been you're going to build on the progress barack obama has
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made. this electorate is saying we want major changes. we asked them, essentially testing your message versus testing his message, even if it comes with an unpredictability, by ten points, they want the unpredictability. that's how fed up they are. how do you respond to that? >> first of all, i have 2 million more votes than donald trump. i think voters, as opposed to the kind of back and forth and the public arena, when voters show up to vote, they take that vote seriously. and yes, i know he has a plurality of republicans who have voted for him. but i think in the course of this campaign, we are going to demonstrate he has no idea -- there's no evidence he has any
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ideas about making america great, as he advertises. he seems to be particularly focused on making himself appear great. and as we go through this campaign, we're going to be demonstrating the hollowness of his rhetoric. and the danger of a lot of what he has said. and i am very confident that the american people are going to want change. every election is about the future. i have laid out very positive approaches. i'm not running for anybody's third term. i'm running for my first term. i also want to do what works. my goal is to produce positive results for the american people. more good jobs, rises incomes. the kinds of tangible progress i think people are yearning for and they need and deserve to see. >> you know, bernie sanders has been talking about a political revolution.
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a future you can believe in. obviously, donald trump with the make america great again is one of these slogans that have taken off for better or for worse. if you can sum up, what is the big idea of your campaign? >> we're stronger together. we're stronger together in facing our internal challenges and our external ones. we're stronger together if we work to improve the economy, and that's going to mean trying to get the republicans to do what will actually help produce more jobs, like we saw in the 1990s. we're stronger together when we have a bipartisan, even nonpartisan foreign policy that protects our country. and that provides the kind of steady, strong, smart leadership that the rest of the world expects from us. i know that slogans come and go, and all the rest of it, but when i look at where we are in our country together, we need to unify the country. we're stronger together when we act on a set of plans and priorities that will go down to the benefit of the american people. >> how do you do it? you're a polarizing figure in american politics. you have an unfavorable rating almost as high as donald trump's.
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how do you do it? >> it's not as high. >> it's not, but it's pretty high. pretty polarizing, he's polarizing. how do you do it if you're elected president? >> just the way i did it when i was first lady, senator, and secretary of state. when i have these jobs, chuck, i actually get things done and i work with people across the aisle. honestly, i worked with republicans in the '90s to create the children's health insurance program. i worked with tom delay, the hammer in the house, to reform adoption and foster care. i worked with practically every republican. and i worked as secretary of state to get things done and to reduce nuclear weapons, for example, between russia and myself. so i have a track record.
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and i'm going to remind people of that because it's not just rhetoric for me. when i was secretary of state, i had a very approval rating, as you can go back and check. because i was doing a job that people could see. when i get into the arena and all of the negativity that been thrown at me for 25 years is recycled and put out there, i know i have work to do, but i'm confident it's going to be successful. >> couple more questions. you said, bill clinton, you were basically going to put him in charge of getting the economy going again. what does that mean? >> what i said in kentucky and west virginia is there are parts of our country that have been left out and left behind for too long. i am going to ask my husband, who has a great track record in creating jobs, putting people to work, revitalizing communities, to be in an advisory role, working with me, working with our cabinet, to try to figure out what we can do. you know, every first lady has taken on special projects, and i think my husband's understanding of how to get this economy moving in places that have been left behind will be incredibly valuable. >> both donald trump and bernie sanders have been running
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against some of the economic policies of the '90s, trade, wall street deregulation, things like that. does that concern you? >> they're not running against 23 million new jobs, they're not running against incomes going up for everyone. not against median family income going up 17% and for african-americans, 33%, and ending up with a balance and a surplus. i said i wanted to renegotiate nafta. i voted against the only multinational trade deal when i was in the senate. i stated my opposition to the trans-pacific partnership, based on what it was negotiated to include. i'm more than happy to take on that airport. i ask people when they criticize the '90s, what do they criticize, the peace or prosperity? a lot of americans think of that as a time where they thought they were getting ahead, and we ran smack dab into the failed republican economic policy.
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>> i know you're not going to reveal how you're vetting a running mate, but you saw this process up close with al gore. what did you learn from that process of your husband picking al gore and the governing structure he was involved in that you're going to use? >> the most important thing is to pick someone who you have absolute confidence in can be president. that's more important than any characteristic. and then someone you can work with. someone that you believe will be a good partner, not just to you but to the rest of the government. someone who can go around the country as joe biden has done very well, in explaining and advocating for the policies of the obama administration. >> mark cuban. >> yes. >> i did an interview with him earlier. he expressed serious interest if you called him up and said, i want to vet you to be my running mate, he would listen.
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what do you say to that? >> we should look widely and broadly. it's not just people in elected office. it is success business people. i am very interest in that and i appreciate his openness to it. i think -- >> you plan on having people who maybe have never served in elected office? >> i'm absolutely intending to look far and wide. i think that is the best way to find somebody who can really capture what's needed in the country. and business people have, especially successful business people who are really successful, as opposed to pretend successful, i think have a lot to offer. >> pretend successful? is there anything donald trump has done that you think should be praised? >> i think he needs to release his tax returns. the only two we have show he hasn't paid a penny in taxes, yet he goes around talking about make america great. you know, that means paying for our military. that means paying for our roads. that means paying for the v.a. that means a lot of things. if you have someone running for president who is afraid to
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release his tax returns because it will expose the fact he pays no federal income tax, i think that's a big problem. >> there's nothing about his background that is praise worthy? >> we'll find out. because we have to get below the hype. we have to find what the reality is. >> you don't feel like you know that? >> i don't think the country knows it. >> do you? >> i think that we're beginning to find out, but i don't think we know enough. that's why he should release his tax returns, prove he actually has a level of success he claims to have. >> thanks for coming on. coming up, my interview with entrepreneur and dallas mavericks owner mark cuban who says he's open to discussing being a running mate for either hillary clinton or donald trump. what about running for president himself? finally, last night was the season finale of "saturday night live." guess who they brought back for it. here's a take. >> i'm closing up the bar right now. everybody has to go. that means you, too, sir.
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>> alex, you're a message guy. i'm going to ask you, we learned the new hillary clinton message, it looks like. stronger together. what do you think? >> it's the first time she's had a bumper sticker slogan she can put on a t-shirt, so good for her. sounds a little defensive, though. this is a candidate who has displayed a tremendous amount of political weakness. she's been dragged all over this nomination process by a near octogenarian socialist who honeymooned in russia. they can't put him away. something a little stronger is probably a good idea. now she's chosen her president, her husband, to bail her out on the economy, handing him half the portfolio. >> i think the problem, it does sound a bit like a slogan, and i'm not 100% sure what it means
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and how it unites voters. most people want the country to be united and strong, but what donald trump sort of hit upon with his make america great message is the sense of nostalgia that a certain kind of white, particularly white voter, has for a bygone era, and it gets right to it. i think it's good the clinton campaign are strategizing. it's interesting that she seemed so much like a strategize, and so many answers felt like this is hillary, the smart political strategist telling you what she intends to do, and it's still not giving her campaign a driving dream. >> change versus steadiness. i showed the results in there. look, you can't change who you are. she is who she is. i think she realizes that, but what did you think of her change answer? >> well, not so much, to be
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honest. the bumper sticker version that she has come up with is better than not as high as donald trump's unfavorability numbers which was the other thing she was suggesting, but no, i think that her -- to me, what's so striking about the poll you mentioned before was the unfavorability numbers between her and trump. we have seen that she's at 54 and trump is at 58. i think these are record highs. >> record highs. and we have actually done something more fun. you'll love this, alex and helene. there's 19% of our survey that is unfavorable to both candidates. there's your swing vote, right. who are these people? here's what's amazing. i'll show you this. right now if you look at it, you ask these people who do you favor, trump versus clinton, they're narrowly for trump. 36% say neither or a third candidate. now you match up trump and sanders.
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it's 59% of the people are for sanders. these are sanders voters. >> they are, and part of what you're seeing is that so many of the sanders voters are younger people who are very passionate about bernie sanders. hillary voters are people who want a democratic president one way or another. they're not sitting around thinking we want -- >> not pro clinton, they're pro democrat. >> you're seeing that come through. i want to put some love in for hillary's new slogan. i don't think it's that bad. i think stronger together implies that sort of goes back to kind of what we saw in 2008 when president obama was talking about, yes we can. >> a little more optimism to it. breaking down barriers. >> breaking down barriers was the other one, and that just sunk. >> what it doesn't do, this is a country with a 70% wrong track rating. if we keep going in that direction, we may go so far we may not be able to get back. it does not address change. this is a candidacy of continuity. i'll disagree that trump is a
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nostalgic campaign. it's not about going backwards. it's about renewing the country. hillary is more of the same. 70% wrong track versus change. there's gogoing to be a lot of theater, but fundamentally, that's what's going to drive trump. >> a lot of people feel it's on the wrong track because people like them are not culturally offended because people of color and immigrants are sort of ruining the country that belongs to them. it's nostalgic. >> what's interesting is i also felt like she spent a lot of time trying to contrast with trump. one of the ways they have been hitting him this week is by saying he's a risk. if you go to hillaryclinton.com, here's the first quick screen grab that pops up. it says we can't risk a donald trump presidency. and the word risk, okay, i'll admit, a few others brought this up. it's actually a word that's used quite a bit by candidates that are usually behind. take a listen. >> obama and congressional liberals, too risky for america. >> i think that the risky tax scheme as i always call it that's been proposed by the republican candidate is reckless. >> we simply cannot put america's future at risk with a
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person who is wrong for the job. >> it's a big risk to have reagan. >> reagan, clinton, you see the point there. risk. alex, you said you recognized one of those spots. >> i did that. i ran the he's a risk we wasn't afford george bush campaign against her husband. guess what. it said change. it cemented that our opponent was change. that's exactly what hillary clinton is doing. that's the election she doesn't want to run. >> except donald trump may be the one candidate this is
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something that could work. the reason it didn't work before is the person didn't seem to be an inherent risk. people didn't feel obama was a risk. with donald trump, he's such a wild card candidate, particularly on issues of foreign policy, cuddling up to putin, saying he would meet with kim jong-un, there is so much that is jarring that people do see this as something you might not want in the white house. in that way, this is a goldwater moment for the country. >> we will pause there and continue this discussion in a little bit. when we come back, donald trump says he has brought millions of new voters into the process. it would be a huge lift for the gop if it's true. but is it? well, i have the answer for you coming up right after this. allergies. and i'm doing just fine. claritin provides 24-hour relief of symptoms that can be triggered by over 200 allergens. yeah, over 200 allergens!
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and we are back. it's data download time. donald trump has made a lot of big claims on the campaign trail, including this one, that he's bringing in millions of new voters into the republican folds. the fact of the matter is republican turnout in the primaries has increased all over the country. but the questions remain, are these actual brand-new voters to the process or are they republican voters who simply are voting in primaries for the very first time? well, thanks to the analytics firm, we can actually start to answer that question. brand-new voters or republicans that have shifted in the primary? let's take a look at the state of virginia where the republican primary turnout was nearly four times what we saw in 2012. who were these people? this year, 19% of these folks had previously voted in a republican primary. a whopping 72% had been republicans who had voted in
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general elections but never in a primary in virginia. that leaves just 6% of voter whose are actually totally brand-new. never voted in a primary or general election in the state of virginia. that 6% represents about 58,000 voters. that's a decent chunk of voters, but how big is it? well, let me show you. if you add those 58,000 to mitt romney's total vote in virginia, well, trump would still fall about 90,000 votes short of where obama was in 2012. a similar story in ohio. new voters made up 6% of the republican primary electorate, or 118,000 new voters. these new voters, again, if you put them all to trump, would not be enough to make up the gap between the obama number for clinton. in a number of states, trump did bring in a significant number of voters, but these are easy wins for a republican nominee like idaho, or they're not enough to flip a state from blue to red, like michigan. only in the state of new hampshire did trump pull in enough brand-new voters to possibly flip the state in
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november. donald trump isn't wrong about bringing in new voters to the process, but what this analysis shows us is that he didn't bring in enough new voters to make a difference if that's the sole way he relies on trying to win a general election. what this does show is that enthusiasm and in a tight race, in this case shouldn't be taken for granted. republicans clearly are fired up about coming out to the polls. up next, how did two candidates with record low favorable ratings manage to become the nominees of both major parties? >> and then mark cuban on running with hillary clinton or donald trump, or even running for president himself. flonase is the first and only nasal spray approved to relieve both itchy, watery eyes and congestion.
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by the way, if it were just hillary clinton's number, it would have been a high for a presidential nominee. donald trump's number is a high. hillary clinton said it's not as high. okay, she's right, joy. >> it's not as high, but these are also two well known qualities, or people feel they know them well. and so much of the negative information about them has already been litigated. it's a wash at this point. for bernie sanders, the reason he has such better unfavorable numbers is we don't know a lot of the negatives about bernie sanders. sure, he's sort of a -- i think that is a valid point. >> what new information can come out on these folks? you know, i do feel like -- >> well. >> as far as the voters are concerned, i think joy is right. there's no new info. >> i think you're probably right, but i also think trey gowdy would disagree with you. you have the benghazi house republicans. >> but that's a change of perception.
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>> i don't think it changes anything. my nephew was in my kitchen yesterday wandering around. he's 24 years old and going on about he's not going to vote. a typical post-college millennial type who kept going on and on. finally, he concluded he's not going to vote this year. i just like locked him out of the house. you have with young people this disaffection. so i wonder how that's going to play out. >> both these candidates i think have leprous unfavorable ratings. they're slightly less unfavorable than putin. but what does that mean? on the republican side, who are the motivated voters? trump voters. on the democratic side, the motivated voters are bernie sanders voters. i that might be a advantage for donald trump. >> i disagree with the premise there's nothing new. the danger for trump is greater because any new information
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about hillary clinton isn't going to change perception. there's a risk with trump because a lot of his popularity is based on celebrity that if the things about him that people like turn out to be the things you find out he worked over working class workers, like he's not as rich as he says he is, those are things that could damage him. >> mr. draper, you spent a lot of time with mr. trump over the last few weeks. you have an epic piece in the "new york times" magazine that will take days to read. >> unreadable? >> no, very readable. i asked trump if he had ever been to iraq. never, he said, sounding horrified by the thought. you asked him the most dangerous place in the world he had been to. brooklyn? no, there are places in america among the most dangerous in the world. you go to places like oakland or ferguson, the crime numbers are worse. seriously. was he serious? >> yes, he was serious. i think the transition people would like to see this man make is not so much staying off twitter, not so much having a veneer of presidential affect, but what they would like to do is imagine this boastful ceo of a company that bears his own name becoming or assuming the moral mantle of responsibility of being a public servant which obligates you to learn about the
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world and issues with more granularity than he has demonstrated. >> first two cities are ferguson and oakland. >> that's not a dog horn, it's a ball horn. the thing that's interesting is donald trump up until now has not gone after african-americans as much as migrants and muslim americans. it's one thing that he can't get approval. the kind of people protesting in cleveland, the folks outside the arena, they hear that dog whistle as a bull horn. >> is that a mistake for him to do that? >> any time donald trump is not talking about the big issue, the fundamental issue in the election, it's a mistake. what is that? the country is on the wrong track. i'm change. she's exactly the same. if you're the middle-class workers you were talking about, if you're poor, president obama's war on poverty has failed. donald trump is not talking about what he usually talks about, he could have a better day. >> in an electorate 30% people of color -- >> they don't want more of the
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same. tell me how their lives have gotten better the last eight years. >> i can tell you they're not going to respond to a candidate who has an ethno nationalistic message. >> after the 2012 election when the republican party did their examination, realizes they had alienated so many minorities, mitt romney had alienated so many hispanics and blacks and women as well.
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you're looking at donald trump doubling down on all of these issues, all these mistakes all over again, i don't see how at the end of the day you win over the majority of the american population when you have alienated women, blacks, and hispanics, how do you do that? >> what happens when you open up the economy for everybody? >> what happens if you hate both candidates? you're looking for another candidate. i actually interviewed somebody who could be that candidate. my interview with entrepreneur, sports owner and reality star mark cuban. and we'll bring you another clip from last night's "snl." >> what can i get for you two. >> i'll have a beer, a new brand people are flocking to. something refreshing and revolutionary. something that draws huge crowds. >> and i'll have whatever beer no one likes but gets the job done. if you're going to make a statement... make sure it's an intelligent one. ♪ the all-new audi a4, with available virtual cockpit. ♪
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mark cuban, billionaire yaunt, owner of the dallas mavericks, is dipping his toe in the political waters of 2016. a recent entrepreneur, owner of the dallas mavericks, is dipping his toe in the political waters of 2016. a recent "washington post" article, his name was mentioned as a possible independent candidate the some republicans were trying to recruit to take on trump in the fall. he declined but didn't stop him from speaking out about this election. a reality tv star in his own right, last summer, cuban said trump's campaign was good for politics. i sat down with him earlier in the week and started by asking him if trump's candidacy has
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been good for the country. >> on a longer term basis, absolutely. he's opened the door to nontraditional candidates which is a great thing. he's taken out the traditional, you know, bullet points and political speak. that's a good thing. but those are longer term issues. in the short term, there's a lot of divisiveness and uncertainty and that's not necessarily a good thing. >> my interpretation of your comments was a couple years ago when someone asked you about running for president, it wasn't no, it was hell no, but i take it that what trump has done is made you feel comfortable about some day thinking about public service, is that fair to say?
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>> it's certainly more of a consideration than it was for the reasons we mentioned before. you don't have to be the perfect stepford candidate like you would have been in the past. >> look, there's clearly a desire here for another alternative. you know, the libertarian party still hasn't held their nominating convention. it wouldn't take much for you to get that nomination if you went down there, and your political views seem to fit more with them than any other party. >> i mean, i haven't really delved into the libertarian party to know where they stand. i'm not sure they would want to bring somebody in who isn't quite a match with their views. but you know, it's too late for this election. i mean, just to try to wing it, just to try to shake things up, that, you know, the law of unintended consequences tends to create more problems than it solves. >> you were a big advocate of michael bloomberg running. you advocated him running in '08, in '12, and again in '16. he chose not to because he said he didn't think he could win. is that a good enough reason? >> yeah, if you're the person doing all the work and grinding through it, of course it is. >> is that good for the country? >> again, if you don't think you can win, then your decision making is impacted by that. it's the same in sports, the same in politics, the same in business. if you don't think you're going to succeed, voters in this case would see right through it and see that's the case. so you can't go into it not willing to do the work, not willing to grind. and it's his choice to make. >> assess the obama presidency.
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>> i think he's done a lot of good things. contrary to what some think. i think he's made a lot of mistakes as well. that's what you expect from a president. i think he's smart. i think he -- his goal was to really bring up people from the bottom and providing health care. that's been a positive step. i think he's really had the interest of the country at hard, but i think he's made some significant mistakes in foreign policy. >> what's obamacare meant to your business? >> it really hasn't impacted my businesses at all because we tend to have invested in health care for our employees. but i think from an entrepreneur's perspective, it gives them a chance to leave jobs they were stuck in and get insurance where they otherwise might not have had it. >> let me go back to clinton versus trump here. you joked you would love to be clinton's running mate as long as you were allowed to throw bombs as trump. if she really did come to you, would you listen. >> absolutely.
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but the key would be that she would have to go more to center. i think i like the fact that senator clinton has sought out proposals. that's a good thing because at least we get to see exactly where she stands. i think senator sanders has dragged her a little too far to the left. things like college tuition and other business elements that really, i think, could hurt the economy. if she's willing to listen, willing to hear other sides of things, then i'm wide open to discussing it. >> what about donald trump? >> same. you know, i'm an independent. and i'm fiercely independent and think for myself. i would have the same conversation for donald. donald has a real chance to win. that's scary to a lot of people, but what's scary about it to me is you can see him now trying to do what he thinks is right to unify the party, and he's listening to everybody. which is fine on the surface,
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but what's also happening is it's coming across as if he's proposing things based off the last person he talks to. oh, you need to unite the conservatives and here are 11 people to propose for supreme court justices. i bet if you asked him about any one of them and to discuss any one of their findings, he wouldn't be able to do it. to me, that's a problem. so if he asked me, i would be like, okay, donald, that's great. let's talk about, but we're both going to have to dig in and look and understand the issues so we can come up with solutions. >> you know, you and i talked ten years ago, one of the questions i might have asked would have been about your temperament. when people have seen mark cuban ten years ago, it was the guy yelling at officials, the owner of the mavericks getting mad and all this stuff. you have toned it down. >> no, absolutely not. >> but you have. and donald trump, some people will say, has never changed his temperament. >> well, first of all, there's two sides. during a mavericks game, that's where i let it loose, where i let out all my anxiety, my aggression, and i still scream, but the other 23 hours of the day, or 22 hours of the day, has always been my temperament.
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with donald, could he change? it's possible for anybody to change, but i just don't see evidence that he wants to change. i think he's trying to do what he thinks is the right thing right now, but there's just so much coming at him at once, he's looking for short cuts and this is not a job with short cuts. >> what would it take to convince you to run in 2020 or 2024? >> it's too early to tell. depending on what happens with whoever is elected, depending on what happens with the economy. the reality is there's so much uncertainty with the economy and neither candidate really has come up with anything even relevant to the economy. you know, and so we would have to see what happens. we have to see, you know, if congress still does nothing or they have managed to take steps and have an impact. there's so many variables that i don't have the answers to, i couldn't tell you. >> cavs, warriors or thunder? i already eliminated the raptors.
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>> i'm going to take a little bit of a long shot and go with the thunder. >> well, that's bad news for washington fans because everybody worries that he'll never come to washington if he wins a title in okc. all right. mark cuban, thanks for coming on. >> i appreciate it. >> by the way, you can catch more of my interview with mark cuban. we talk about his philosophy on the economy, even what he thinks on details of obama's foreign policy. also, a programming note for you for the very first time, an american who joined isis is now speaking out in an exclusive interview with my colleague, richard engle. why did this person join, what did he witness, and how did he escape? richard engle's report is for "on assignment," which airs tonight at 7:00 eastern, 6:00 central on your nbc station. we'll be back in 45 seconds with "end game."
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end game time. panel is here. i got a quick agenda, but "end game" time. panel is here. i got a quick agenda, but first, reaction to cuban. quick. >> i thought he was great. then i loved him on "dancing with the stars." >> reality tv star. >> we need more cubans in politics. >> add a cuban to the ticket. >> mark cuban may be the future. a little more libertarian on social issues. pro-business, pro-growth. >> and i know right now we're in the anything looks good compared to what we have mode, the grass is always greener, but boy, you could see how he could take off. >> sure, for that matter, you could see his self-awareness when he says about trump's list of judicial nominees, you have to understand who the people are
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you're putting on a list. he's not ready yet, and a vp cuban slot is not going to happen, but i'm sure down the line he's interested. >> hillary clinton, it's funny about it, and she told me, i would consider somebody, if she goes with a nontraditional running mate, doesn't it admit -- >> it undermines what she said, she wants somebody who can be a president right now. listening to him by his own standards, mark cuban doesn't feel like he could be a president, but he could be a heck of a surrogate. >> i want to change the topic. bob bennett, a remarkable story, we interviewed his son, longtime republican senator from utah. he was dying, just passed away of pancreatic cancer. the story his son tells of the last few weeks of his life, about what he was focused on is,
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remarkable. here's a clip. >> he said are there any muslims in this hospital? i said, i'm sure there are. he said i would like to go up to every single one of them and apologize on behalf of the republican party for donald trump. >> you know, alex, this was when you read this whole story about what senator bennett was doing, going up to muslims in airports and apologizing, he was speaking also as a mormon. he was personally offended in so many ways. >> no question that donald trump is an unconventional candidate. but i would urge all of us here in washington to remember the urgency of the moment that the american people feel. folks are desperately wanting change in this election. they think we're headed in the wrong direction. and yes, they are making some
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very unconventional decisions here because they think we are just at a terminal moment if this country continues to drift in the direction of european socialism. what happens to greece, what is happening in france will eventually happen to us. >> some fear of european nativism. the worst parts of europe left and right. >> the united states is not as a terminal moment. >> that's the disconnect where think we have in washington. >> it is. >> america thinks it is. >> i think what bob bennett was trying to get across is also the fear of where you start, and people toss words like fascism around, but when you start to see things happening in your own country, you start to see a certain group of people being stigmatized to the point where we're talking about a ban on muslims and that sort of thing, that's scary. it's very scary for a presidential candidate. >> i have to leave it there. thank you, all. very rambunctious. we'll be back next week, because if it's sunday, it's "meet the
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press." a very good sunday you to. thank you for being us with. we're at msnbc headquarters in new york city. it's 3:00 on the east coast. 12:00 noon on the west. that hour, ruling nothing out, officials beefing up the search for the wreckage of egyptair flight 08804. lingering questions about who or what brought down the plane. officials saying it's too soon to rule out an act of terror. >> the bigger threat is the idea that can you have insider threats. the best te

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